Kipling's Cat (mintogrubb) wrote in uk_cell,
Kipling's Cat
mintogrubb
uk_cell

Not only in America...

...but in Europe as well, there are those that want to turn the clock back. In the last 200 years or so, we have created societies in the Western World that offer a more equal opportunity for women to lead their own lives as they would choose. Western women now have a choice in how many childen they will have, if they choose to have any at all.

Not everyone is happy with this, as the following link makes clear.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,344374,00.html

We must unitite internationally against this sort of extremism. We must export the Jihad and it's principles across the world and stand in solidarity with all who wish to remain free of the tyranny of the theocrats whose values come down from a different age and culture.
Xposted in uk_cell and my LJ
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  • 28 comments
They don't want to turn the clock back - they want to turn Europe Muslim.

Their life isn't a return to the past, it's the way life is lived where they (or their parents, or grandparents) came from.
I wouldn't call it Muslim. It's Arabic, if anything.
My apologies; Arabic, then.
It is Medieval, first and foremost, and that is what I object to.
I believe in a woman's right to decide her own future for herself, and unless I am much mistaken, the koran does not uphold these rights.

I could be wrong. maybe a woman is allowed to divorce her husband, hold down a job and use contraception under Islamic law, but i don't think so. I stand to be corrected if anyone can show me the relevant Suras in the Koran, though.
I have no idea how you have been so misinformed.

A woman is allowed to divorce her husband.
A woman is allowed to hold down a job. Prophet Muhammed's first wife (PBUH) was a Merchant Queen. He worked for her.
Contraception is not forbiddon. It depends how you look at it. Some people say that it shouldn't be used but to my knowledge there is nothing forbidding it.

I can't tell you the relevant Surahs simply because I do not know the Qu'ran that well. But what I've told you is widely believed. The Qu'ran upholds the equality of women, I can't stress by how much. Please don't be misguided by the culture of many self-professed "Islamic" nations.
As I say, I have only read the Koran through once. It was in English and may have been an abridged version. If, as you say, women's rights are enshrined in the Scriptures of the Islamic faith, I hope that tha moderates can win out over the fanatical extremists.I have heard from elsewhere that the Koran itself does not insist on women being veiled, it is simply tradition, so I would not be surprised if Islamic scholars could show that the Koran originally was more enlightened than many modern day followers admit or even know.

Hopefully, a dialogue can be set up that provides another voice in contrast to the militants.
Can you please give me the source of your information? Was it a Qu'ran from the Internet or did you buy it. If so, from where? The Qu'ran should never be altered or abridged. Of course you can have books with quotations from the Qu'ran but that's hardly the same thing.

To my knowledge you're correct in saying that the Qu'ran doesn't insist on women wearing hijab, you can't force a woman to, it should be her choice. The interpretation of Islam in the West is horribly wrong because the culture of several "Islamic" states is confused with the religion. There are a lot of scholars who actively show that this view is wrong but fanaticism and ignorance wins out. There are a lot of misinformed Molvis who teach the wrong religion. I have not willingly gone to a mosque in years simply because I disagree with 99% of the Molvis around London because even they confuse culture with religion (I can think of only one that I like). In my eyes, they're more dangerous than any fanatic.

mintogrubb

12 years ago

miss_spunk

12 years ago


Their life isn't a return to the past

Sorry -it is. right now in Europe, women are free to divorce, to have a career independent of a husband, a father, or any other male. Our culture stems from things that happened in the 50s/60s. thiers is dependent on a worldview developed and unchanged since around 600 AD.

I have read the Koran myself. An English translation, admittedly, but it does say that men have the right to rule over women as they must spend their wealth to maintain them.

Not in our society, they don't.
Sorry -it is. right now in Europe

Exactly. If it was Europeans doing this, I'd agree, but it's not. This is how things are done now where they come from. This is how their culture is now.
The fact that these people keep customs going that are centuries old is nothing that they should be neccessarily be proud of. Ok, you can talk about the drugs and crime that afflict westen society, but the fact remains that not everyone in the west is a junkie using crime to finance a habit. Jewish culture is a lot older, but Jews do not have a problem with alcohol, for instance. Just because it's old does not make it right...
I didn't say anything about it being "right". All I said was that these people aren't trying to "turn the clock back", they're trying to bring their culture with them. It's equally unacceptable.
And exactly how do they have that right? Must they spend their money to maintain them?

I personally think you're somewhat misguided. Under Islam a woman does have the right to make money, has the right to keep all her money, and guess what? They have the right to spend that money too! So a man does not have to spend their money to *maintain* a woman.
Can't quote you the exact verse, sorry, Surah, but that bit did stick in my mind as i read the Koran years ago because I thought "What???" I am positive that the Koran does say something to that effect.
I disaggree, of course, but this is a genuine quote from memory.
As I said I don't know my way about the Qu'ran well enough, but I'll research and get back to you on it!
Many thanks.
I am not anti religion per se, I am a churchgoer myself, but I disagree with many things that are said in the Christian Bible ( or at least the Protestant version)
My faith is one that allows for the fact that our (Christian and Jewish) Scriptures were written thousands of years ago, and modern science has moved on since then.

ohnefuehlen

12 years ago

mintogrubb

12 years ago

ohnefuehlen

12 years ago

mintogrubb

12 years ago

miss_spunk

12 years ago

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miss_spunk

12 years ago

mintogrubb

12 years ago

miss_spunk

12 years ago

miss_spunk

12 years ago

mintogrubb

12 years ago

miss_spunk

12 years ago